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How To Build A Career Roadmap Like A Project Plan with Tyler Norman
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Your career doesn’t stall because you “lack drive.” It stalls because nobody taught you how to run it like a real project. We talk with Tyler Norman, Director of Strategic Supply Chain Programs at Scholastic and a longtime PMI speaker, about turning career growth into a roadmap you can execute instead of a wish you revisit every January.
We get into what separates education-only project management from experience-built project management and why internships, volunteering, and getting close to the work matter so much for new PMs. Tyler shares how he uses job descriptions like requirements, then performs gap analysis to identify the skills, certifications, and “component projects” that move him toward the next role. If you’ve ever wondered which PMI certification to pursue next or how to keep a steady continuous learning rhythm without burning out, you’ll get a practical framework you can borrow.
The conversation also goes beyond work. Tyler explains the moment he realized he was “killing it” professionally while his personal life was falling apart and how that sparked his most requested talk: managing your career path like a project. We dig into planning as a total human, building swim lanes for family, health, and career, and using seasons to prioritize what matters most right now. We also talk about modern AI tools like Microsoft Copilot, Google Gemini, ChatGPT, and Claude, including how to set your AI up to push back and be objective instead of acting like a cheerleader.
If you want a clearer plan, better priorities, and a weekly rhythm that holds up in real life, subscribe to PM Mastery, share this with a PM friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.
Links:
- Connect with Tyler on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tyler-norman/
- Website: https://navigatewithpurpose.com
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Intro Music And Welcome
Intro/OutroAnd now you're fine.
Meet Tyler Norman And His Work
Walt SparlingSo welcome everybody to the current edition of PM Mastery. And today I have with me Tyler Norman. Welcome to the podcast, Tyler.
TYler NormanYeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Walt.
Walt SparlingGood to have you. Uh, we're gonna do our kind of normal get started here, learn a little bit about who you are, what you do. So let's start with who you are.
TYler NormanYeah, absolutely. So in my uh my quote unquote day job, I'm a director of strategic supply chain programs with Scholastic Inc. That's a mouthful that means I sit at the apex of major programs that involve technology, supply chain engineering, systems processes, the big ugly stuff. And I get to do a it's a lot of fun being there. And as someone with a child, it's fun to work at Scholastic that's known for some of that big IP like Harry Potter, Hunger Games, Clifford, and all that fun stuff. Um, in addition to that, I do some speaking with PMI chapters, and I'm very involved with the Project Management Institute. I like to share that a few years ago, PMI asked me to speak at PM Expo, their virtual event, and I said yes, not really knowing what it was. And they shared they had 80,000 people registered and my heart just about stopped. Um, but yeah, I've spoken to a lot of people since then and learning a lot, having a lot of fun along the way.
Walt SparlingSo now you've you kind of went into a little bit about what you do. So we we got that covered, and you said you enjoyed it, especially with um a kid, you said one or two kids.
TYler NormanJust one, one, one four-year-old boy.
Walt SparlingOkay. So why? Why why do you what what got you into this kind of work?
TYler NormanYeah, you know, I'm one of those rare PMs that I've been a PM my whole career. Um, I I've been a PM since the day I was born, I'm pretty sure. I my you know, my first job when I was 11 was striping baseball diamonds, and I came forward to the guy that ran it and shared how if I switched the steps up, I could get it done more quickly. And, you know, I've that's just kind of the way my brain has always worked, and had some project management in college and went right into the construction space and spent about a decade there. Um, while I've worked in several different industries, I just I love the fact that it's different all the time. It's not a make this widget in the same way and look up 30 years from now.
Why Project Management From Day One
TYler NormanSo it's unique challenges and unique problems that you're solving week over week, day over day. Um and there's there's just something really enjoyable about bringing teams together and finding ways to make groups of people work in a way that is greater than the sum of the parts.
Walt SparlingThat's that's inspiring. So long time PM, that's that's good. So many people stumble into project management. Yep. And I mean, nowadays you can actually start out and go to school. And I know a lot of people, I I think there's uh a belief that project management pays very well, and and and it does for the most part. So a lot of young people are now getting involved in it early on, like as their first career. And uh see a lot of people going for the certs early on, and there's a lot of courses in school, but most people that I've run into have just kind of you know, they're either an SME or an expert in one area, and then they get promoted to project manager because they can oversee it, understand everything, and still do the work. So I know uh that's how I I got into it, and many people that I've interviewed and talked with, and people that I work with, same way. So it's interesting to see someone kind of early on right into it.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah. And it's uh it's funny you mention that. It's I I mentor a lot of PMs, and you have to know your background and what you need for the folks that fall sideways into project management from the field, they need the project management skills. I've mentored, like you said recently with project management growing in both notoriety and more college programs, you're seeing more folks that start their careers in project management. And for those folks, it's so critical to be willing to go get their hands dirty in a metaphorical or sometimes a literal sense if they're working in construction or engineering. When I started my career, some of the best coaching I got was yeah, you're a PM, you get to wear the nice clothes and sit in the office, but you need to get out there and spend, you know, early on a couple days a week on site learning the trade and learning how things actually work on the job site. So, yes, it's uh it's a good thing in some senses that the pendulum has swung to where more folks are starting their career in project management, but it also brings forward some new important learning opportunities.
Walt SparlingYeah, and it's it's interesting because a lot of the PMs that that have been in the say N industry for a while and they work their way in, you know, like in construction, you can start out as a project engineer and work your way up into a PM and then a PM one, two, three, whatever, senior, um they have
Experience Vs Theory For New PMs
Walt Sparlinghistory that builds up skills. Where the people that are starting out fresh, it's knowledge based on education, not experience. So or or what some people refer to it as theory. So you you learn how you should do it, and not necessarily how you will do it. And that I think is interesting. I know in interviews I would ask people, you know, we'd have these uh questions, uh, and I can't even think what they're called at the moment, but uh basically they they give you a scenario and then you give an answer, you you know, yeah, behavioral-based.
TYler NormanExactly.
Walt SparlingYeah, I remember the first time I ever took one of those interviews, I'd I did horrible. But we would always have to reframe, you know, when they start to answer, is like, no, no, no, don't tell me how you would, tell me how you have, because that's we're looking for the experience, not how if you got a situation, what would you do? And that's the one thing I think the newer PMs that go straight into it are gonna take a little bit longer to learn. They they will because they're gonna get exposed to it, but for those who have been in the field a while, the especially the the soft skills with negotiation and and dealing with uh difficult people is something that that you learn over time. That's not something they just tell you in school and you're like, Oh, I got it.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I I speak to college groups a fair bit. That's one of the more enjoyable audience bases that I'll I'll speak to. And I always stress the importance of the the interning, the volunteering, the the getting out of the classroom for that exact reason. When you when you interview the the letters behind the name, whether it's education or certification is great, but you're gonna get that question. And if the answer is, well, the textbook says XYZ, that's you know, you need to bring be able to bring a little more to the table than that.
Walt SparlingYeah, that's so that's almost like a reference manual. Is like, okay, this is how they say now let me try this and see if it works.
TYler NormanAbsolutely.
Walt SparlingYou've obviously been doing this a while. Uh you enjoy what you do, you do a lot of speaking, um, be curious about a little maybe diving into that, like what you speak about or what your focus is. But how do you keep up with uh the industry, uh, maybe specifically with what you do, or just in general?
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, absolutely. And this uh it's funny, I'm answering a bit of both. Um I I've got this methodology I use, it's essentially project skills for your career, but I have always used a roadmap and lined out where do I need to be, what
Building A Certification Roadmap
TYler Normanskills and certifications do I need to be building in order to get there. And I um I've been a PM for 17 years now. I've got six of the PMI certs, um, and I have not learned my lesson yet because I'm working on number seven, the CPM AI, um, and got got at least one more lined up after that. But I have found um just consistently being willing to keep building your toolbox is so important. It's um, you know, a lot of people will come to me and will say, I have time for one cert, what should I do? And I, you know, I'll I'll have answers for that depending upon their specific circumstances. But for me, I've always tried to get a new certification or meaningful bit of learning every one to two years, you know, and life life gets in the way sometimes. I mentioned my four-year-old three times at a little bit more of a premium now than it it was when I was 22. Um, but I try to ensure that I am always working on something and then going after something larger, like a cert or um, you know, a professional certificate or whatever it is every year or two. Um, and it's it's funny we we started off talking about the difference between the theory and the experience, and it's you really need both. Um, I have let the needs of my career steer a little bit of my certification path. You know, I started with the PMP, and that was early in my career. I got just enough experience, and I had some from college and interning and that to be able to get it pretty early. And then I got into some agile adjacent work and I said, okay, it's must be time for the ACP, had some big business analysis as part of an ERP project, and said, I should probably go for the PBA. And that's just built over time as new opportunities have been coming in the workplace. I've gone, okay, I should probably bone up on that. So, and naturally, um now I'm going for the CPMAI cert because I'm getting tapped in in some work around that, and now's a good time for that. But yeah, I think my mindset has always been that I need to continue to have momentum. Um, you know, there there are peaks and valleys, life gets demanding at times, and it's important to zoom out and have that. I'm looking at years and decades, not weeks and months, but I try to never go more than 12 to 18 months without adding something significant and material to the toolbox.
Walt SparlingWell, that's that's cool. And I I think that people that are successful have a continuous learning mindset. And I I'm like that. I used to be big into doing the certs, and I've tapered off on that, but I I always am looking for something new to learn. I I when I run into something that I don't know, I'm like, okay, I gotta learn as much about it as I can. So I'm always learning. Um certifications are great because it's a structured way and it's you have a target versus just generic, oh, I want to learn about this. Well, if you want to get a cert in it, you're gonna learn and get something at the end of the day. So there's value in that for sure. And I like the rhythm, you know, every year to year or two.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's that you mentioned the experience. There's there's also a level there of sometimes certs don't exist in that specific thing you have in mind. So that's that's the place where I'll put it on my roadmap so that that I have that material rabbit to chase on my roadmap. But sometimes it's you go find the person in your org or in your community that's the best at something, and you say, Let me buy you a cup of coffee for an hour or two of your time and talk me through it so I can go run with it.
Walt SparlingThat's that's great stuff. And and continuing education, everyone should do whatever, whether they do it in a rhythm like you do, or just in uh you know, their own methodology, as long as they continue to learn. So we talked, or I had asked early on about what you talk about. So you've mentioned a few things you do, like you help people with search, you you mentor other PMs. When you do your PMI speaking at events, what is your what is your focus or does it vary?
Career Path Planning As A Project
Walt SparlingWhat do you do there?
TYler NormanYeah, you know, it varies a little bit, but I'll I'll talk about where I started because that's been kind of the North Star I've built around. Um, so I I get a lot of folks will ask, how do I get into PMI speaking or or my favorite, what should I talk about? Um, and my answer is always something that you know about, you have knowledge to share, and that you're passionate about. If you've got something you're knowledgeable about and you're passionate about, you can probably talk about it because that knowledge and passion will come through. So for me, the the first session I did for PMI, and it's my most requested session. I'm actually about 80% of the way through a first pass of a book on this topic, is um it's called Managing Your Career Path Like a Project. And it's based off of a methodology that I developed for my own practice. Um and if if uh if you can humor me, I'll tell a very short story about how it came to be. Absolutely. Early in my career, I worked in construction, and um, I'm gonna sound like a jerk saying this, but in the workplace, I was killing it. It was going well. I was managing up to 2,500 people across nine states in the southeast. Um, people I'd never met before were coming to my employer and saying, I want to work with this guy. Outside of the workplace, totally different story. Um, not getting very much sleep. My uh I there was a lot more of me than there is today, let's just put it that way, because my diet was just god-awful because I was driving around job sites working anywhere from 12 to 16 hours a day, six or seven days a week, and just grinding myself into the ground. Um, and I was a big smoker at the time with cigarettes. And I can remember we got a new branch manager who comes into my car and I'm lighting up a cigarette and there's fast food trash on the floor, and he looks over and says, This is really surprising to me. And I said, What do you mean? And uh he goes, as best as I can tell, in your work, you are really buttoned up. Everything's together. You are thinking ahead, you're managing risk, you're dealing with customers. This is not what I would expect to see from you. And like most good advice, the first thing it did was make me really upset. Like, who does he think he is? But it planted this little seed in my head that over time I realized he was exactly right. Why couldn't I bring that same structure and methodology and you know, general success into the personal life? And, you know, I'm not gonna pretend it was flip a switch and all of a sudden things were better and my waistline shrank and everybody was happy. But over a span of years, I started to think ahead in my personal life in terms of professional development, in terms of my relationship with my family, in terms of what we were doing, you know, at our home, and you know, basically applied all those learnings that I had been developing for quite a long time at that point and began applying them to myself and my and my professional and personal life as well. Um, so coming back to your question, that first session I did that has grown and developed was based on a mentoring and personal methodology of thinking about what your needs for the future are, looking for what roles could fill that based on actual job descriptions, what's going to meet my needs of the future or now or whatever time period, doing gap analysis from where am I today to what that role is asking for, and then looking for component projects, quote unquote, to fill that gap from where I am today to make myself able to get that role of the future, be ready to retire, be ready to come out of the military and go into civilian employment, um, whatever that steps into the future is, um, you know, to put a bow on it, it's essentially strategic planning and project management for the human. And that's that's my that's my main largest topic. I've got some other signature sessions that are built on that concept and get a little more specific. Of course, there's an AI one because you can't be a speaker in 2026 and not talk about AI, but that's the uh that's the general theme is self-improvement and skill improvement based on fundamental project management principles.
Walt SparlingAnd you will not get out of here without us talking about AI.
TYler NormanOf course, of course.
Walt SparlingAll right, so that's pretty exciting. Now, do you have any of these? Like, are any of these out on YouTube videos or write-ups or blog posts or anything like that?
TYler NormanYeah, so yeah, yeah. I've got a website. Um, honestly, the easiest is is
When Work Success Hides Personal Chaos
TYler Normanhit me up on LinkedIn and I'm posting about these concepts and talking about places I'm speaking, but I've also got a website, navigatewithpurpose.com. Um, spoiler alert, that may or may not be the title of the coming book uh when when that gets done. Um, but yeah, you can you can check out at either of those places. And there are there are some YouTube snippets in that. And um, you know, if anyone's interested in the concepts, uh just just reach out. I'm pretty sharing with all this stuff. And with working on the book, I've got some like uh use guides and some uh you know personal worksheets that do some of these things. So definitely any anyone can reach out, and I'm always willing to share that stuff.
Walt SparlingWell, and I'll include your LinkedIn profile and your website in the show notes so people can check it out there. You don't have to remember it. Perfect. Um, which is good. One of the things that we didn't talk about a little bit is where are you located?
TYler NormanYeah, yeah. I'm in the uh St. Louis area. I'm I'm okay Illinois side of St. Louis, but in the Midwest, um, and worked a little bit in the uh the southeast. We were based in Charlotte, but yeah, travel, travel a little bit.
Walt SparlingMaybe I should have looked behind you there.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, there you go. That picture was taken uh about 20 minutes from my house. There you go.
Walt SparlingAll right, so a lot going on, a lot of different things. Working on a book, that's cool. I think all of us are working on a book at some point. It I of course kudos to those who have gotten into it and actually have chapters. Uh challenges. What are some of the challenges that you face?
TYler NormanYou know, the the challenge I face on a personal level is the same challenge I fake I face in the workplace and the the challenge I think a lot of people face, and that is um there's not enough hours in the day, and it's prioritizing. And um, you know, the biggest thing I tell people when it comes to this is you can't have it all all of the time. You know, I'm I'm a big proponent of you can have it all, you just can't have it all all of the time. There there have to be seasons and things. So my my wife and I do the triathlon thing as well. So we'll we'll have uh periodization where you build up to a big race and then it gets easier. And one of the concepts I talk about in all my sessions is you are a total human and you have to prioritize and plan as a total human. So when we create our forward-looking roadmaps, we actually include swim lanes for um family, you know, my standard career, you know, my day job for lack of a better term, because you're gonna have peaks where projects get a little crazy and the hours get a little bit tougher. And then you include, you know, what's what's going on. Um, I mentioned family, you know, you may have the birthday party coming up that you have a lot of planning to do. Um, you may have, you know, a family member is gonna need help moving, whatever it is. The the key is you've got to look at it all holistically. And then the the thing I struggle with a lot is you you have to um you have to be willing to let some good ideas go so that you can focus on the best ideas. Um you know, I uh edit this out if you'd like, if you don't mind the the flowery language, but I have I find myself saying a lot, if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. Because you have to be willing to focus on those absolute priorities, otherwise you get bogged down in good ideas and miss the best ones.
Walt SparlingYes, and that is a struggle for like high performers, is you know, we mentioned earlier about a book. Like everybody's working on a book. Well, you know, I'm working on a book and a podcast and a website, and I'm writing like seven different AI apps and doing all these things, and it's like, okay, slow down, you know, prioritize. And trying to keep up with work and family. Yeah, it's it's uh time time in the day. And from what I understand, we all have the same amount. So it's it's how you manage it.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Um, we've we've talked a little bit about my podcast idea. I I loved doing it. I put out a handful of episodes, I got some good engagement, but what I found is it was taking so much time and detracting from the best ideas that I'd rather come join the waltz of the world and have great conversations, and that that's a more viable use of the time.
Walt SparlingNo, I love that. I'm actually with all the stuff I'm doing with AI, I'm working on a uh a tool to let AI actually do a lot of this for me. And there's already tools out there that do that, but you know, like one to do this and one to do that, and one to do this. I'm like, okay, maybe I can build one that does all of it. Yeah, yeah. Then I can have more time. All right. So now in your job, obviously, the speaking, um, one of the things we talk about in the interviews is tools. So and the tools don't have to be hardware, software, whatever. What what would you say are in everything that you do, some of your favorite tools?
TYler NormanYeah, yeah. So in the in the day job, we're uh we're a co-pilot shop. Um, co-pilot gets a lot of hate, but it's actually it's coming along and it's going, it's it's doing better, especially recently with some of the pushes. So that's you know, in the in the day job, that's the primary tool. And we use that for all the all the standard use cases you would think of. You know,
Priorities Seasons And The Hell Yes Rule
TYler Normanuh one of my favorites, the the simple stuff I find pride provides so much value, you know, dictating emails instead of. I always tell people if you get an email that's more than about two sentences, I probably dictated it to co-pilot for the first pass. Um, and those little things, you don't, you know, they only save you two, three minutes here, but you do that 40 times a day, and all of a sudden you've saved a ton of time. Um, so the the little things, um also just like simple, simple interactions with Excel and Word and you know data processing. I don't I don't think that I'm doing anything that would blow people's minds. It's just doing all the fundamentals really well, and that gives you time back to focus on the highest value items. You know, the the time I used to spend on meeting notes is the classic example, is now time I'm out pounding the metaphorical pavement, actually talking to people and solving problems. Um, in outside of the the career, you know, the the speaking in that, I use I a Google shop and very similar story. Gemini is not the most powerful, fancy, shiny tool. But what is incredible is that it reaches across the entire Google workspace, and I can use, you know, my my Google Sheet with my book. I can run queries against that or reference information across that, and then pull that into spreadsheets and emails, and I can, you know, it all it all plays nice with each other. So that's that's what I'm finding a lot of value in is just the total ecosystem tools. Outside of that, um OpenAI and Claude for some of the creative, you know, I info dumps, you know, I've got a bunch of info in my brain, and I dictate into my microphone all of my thoughts, and I say, help me put this into some sort of structure that I can use and and is actually actionable. Um, the the other one I love, and this is a pretty typical prompt structure, but um for like content ideas in that, you do the uh the the matrix chart, different content types down the left, you know, different ideas from your pre-existing material across the top, and then it gives you a bit of content at the apex of each of those points. So um yeah, I I don't think anything I just described is probably something somebody's gonna hear and go, oh my gosh, I've never heard of that, but just executing all of those semi-known prompts well and utilizing it, that's that's the key above everything, is actually utilizing it is giving me a ton of time back to focus on higher value activities.
Walt SparlingYeah, it's interesting is uh I use all of those tools, uh some more than others, but you know, co-pilot, I'm I'm actually learning copilot, but what I've found out really quickly now it's I'm just trying to learn how to best use it within the Microsoft 365 environment. But it's based on ChatGPT.
AI Tools Inside Microsoft And Google
Walt SparlingSo if you know ChatGPT, you can you can do copilot. Right. In fact, all of them are pretty similar. Notebook LM stands out a little bit different in how it works, but uh Claude, Chat GPT, Copilot, because they're based, uh even Gemini, they're very similar interfaces and and and it's it's AI, you know.
TYler NormanRight, right. If I want to hear something horrendous, I go talk to Groc. That's you know, you know what your tools give you.
Walt SparlingYeah, and the the platform uh concept that you you mentioned, and that's one thing with Gemini is the Google and Copilot with the Microsoft. And Claude, actually, Claude is just you know, whatever, whatever you can tie it to, especially if you have uh the uh the Claude Cowork.
TYler NormanYep, yeah.
Walt SparlingSo it's it I just recently uh started using Cowork. I've been using Claude. I haven't even I've been using Claude for a couple months. Before that it was ChatGPT. And uh yeah, that stuff is uh but we're too early talking about uh AI. So but that's great, great tools, and saving time, that's the name of the game. It is interesting though that when in past interviews over the years favorite tools were Excel, OneNote, uh I don't know, uh some of the the various PM tools. And now it's like oh Claude, Chat GPT.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and they're they're so integrated that you almost don't even consider them a standalone tool anymore. You know, I I said co-pilot, and you know, that's that that's how I would describe it, but when I say copilot, I'm I'm intrinsically thinking the co-pilot button in Excel, the copilot button in Outlook, the co-pilot button in SharePoint. You know, it's just that's what I think of to reach across to all of those tools.
Walt SparlingWell, and I've shared this before, but I I my AI has a persona, and I know some people think that's a little whack, but you know, Ava and I I can ask Ava questions. I had this morning I was shaving, I was having a conversation about some marketing ideas, and just put it on voice and just ask questions, get feedback, respond. Love that. Um, I'm actually working on a kind of a Jarvis type uh tool. And I know other people have created them, but I I just like I want to make my own.
TYler NormanRight, right. You want it to be trained in the way that you want to train it. Um, I I don't have the body of material to do it, but you you might or you might be close to it. Some of the uh you may have already done this, but I've I love seeing people who turn over their whole body of material to the AI and make that training material, you know. Even even just in my comparatively small body of content, my tools, um, the chat GTP, I've created some agents based on my body of content, and it asked it to give back to me in my voice. And um, I I hate this word when describing AI, but it's the appropriate one. It was a little almost creepy or eerie how it's giving back using my mannerisms and structures of jokes and everything else.
Walt SparlingYeah, I think that was I what got me one time. I was at a mastermind meeting, and people were talking about AI, and everyone just turned on their uh phone and went into their whatever their AI tool and says, Tell me about myself. And a couple of them went on for like three or four minutes, and I was like, Oh, that is so cool. And and I'm I know this person, I know what they do, I know the things that they're interested in, and I was like, that is spot on. So then I turned mine on and I was like, tell me about what you know about me. And it's like, I'm sorry, but I don't know anything. And I was like, What? So I said, All right, so I started doing a little bit of research, and I said, All right, here's my LinkedIn, here's my website, here's my Instagram, here's some writings, this is my you know how I think about stuff and whatever. And now I feel like it knows me, like it'll bring up stuff that I might have told, talked about six months ago, and it'll bring it forward, which I think is just amazing.
TYler NormanRight, right.
Walt SparlingSo, but yeah, once you get and then you can go in and train it. There are settings in ChatGPT and Cloud where you can go in and actually set the your style, your writing style. You can have it read material and base it on that, or you can go in and specifically spell it out. Powerful stuff.
TYler NormanAbsolutely. Um I believe it's Ricardo Vargas has got, you know, he's got LinkedIn posts in that. And I I think it was one of his, if I'm remembering correctly, a few weeks ago, talked about how he's stood up a couple agents based on his body of knowledge and are constantly testing them. And he will, when when he addresses a unique problem, he will often go to that and say, give me options or you know, something to that effect. So, you know, essentially use it as uses it as a fact checker against his own
Making AI More Honest And Critical
TYler Normannatural brainstorming.
Walt SparlingYeah, and I think that's the one thing you talk to people who've been using AI a while, and you'll find that for the most part, AI is very uh oh, I'm trying to think of the term they use. I've heard it many times, but it's I want to say complimentary, but there's a term for it where it basically you are unbelievable, Tyler. Oh my god, that's the best thing I've ever heard.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah. Um, it's it's too complimentary to a point of not being objective and critical. Um, the those Super Bowl ads were some of the best marketing I've ever seen, where it's too friendly and then it starts mixing in advertisements in the middle. But yeah, you're you're right, especially early GTP was you could have the worst idea in the world, and it would come back with that's a fantastic idea. Let's build it. And you know, you almost have to include in your prompts or in your in your underlying notes on your account, like, be objective, tell me when I'm wrong. I know that's that's one thing I've done, and it's it looks a little different for each tool, but when you build your background prompts for for the tool in general, I always include a you know, tell me when I'm wrong or when something could be done better, don't just agree with me for no reason.
Walt SparlingI have a tool that I'm I'm working on, and it's uh it's basically uh I'm gonna be putting it out here soon, but it's a it's a council of advisors. And one of the things when I went in is I was like, I want you to push back.
TYler NormanYeah.
Walt SparlingDon't say that I'm right. If I say something, challenge me, you know, and then when I I've been using it for a while, and I want to I want to put it out there, I want to make it a commercial thing. And one of the things I was thinking about is I know how I reacted when it would it would come down on me, like when I would do check-ins. And I'm like, some people are not gonna do well with this, especially if they've never modified their AI tool out of the box. They love the fact that it tells them how awesome they are. So I ended up going in and create multiple personalities so they could choose the one they wanted. Do they want someone being critical? Do they want someone being supportive, you know, whatever they want, just to kind of give them that flexibility. All right, speaking, working. So two things that I've done over the years, one more recently, is at the end of the interview, we usually do uh a did you know, which is any any interesting fact, doesn't have to do with project management or program management or industry, it could be anything, or something that I started a few months ago, which was a week in the life, and that is the option you said you wanted to do. So why don't you tell us a little bit about a week in the life in
Time Blocking For Family And Training
Walt SparlingTyler's world?
TYler NormanYeah, yeah. Um so on it's usually on the uh the Friday prior. I'm gonna start before on Friday afternoon. Um, I sit down and map out next week to make sure nothing has snuck up on me too badly and look a few weeks ahead for major deliverables, and and I basically build my full week on Friday afternoon and I block time for deliverables and I make sure that all the family stuff's aligned. Um you know, getting into Monday morning, it's always a little bit of a fire drill of making sure that things aren't on my plate in projects. As project managers, we know that sometimes sometimes you can become the bottleneck. And for me, with so much going on in the workplace, there's usually a make sure everybody's got what they need to be productive this week. Nothing's nothing's waiting on me. Um, you know, get get into you know a kind of a standard work day, managing project meetings, confirming deliverables, talking to stakeholders. Um, and then for me, there's always that sometimes it starts at 4 p.m., sometimes it's at five. You know, the family, family craziness starts. I mentioned my wife and I both do the triathlon thing. So we line out our trading training calendars. Um, I've usually got, we each usually have four to seven training things a week. So we it's a mix of mornings. Um if I've got shorter stuff, I may sneak out at my lunch hour. That's a that's a hidden perk of working from home. And then end of the day. So some combination of that. Uh, we've got the the four-year-old. So um swim lessons are usually somewhere a day a week. Um, but that you know, four to seven-ish is chaos every day. Some some combination of workouts, family stuff, kids stuff. Um, we always try to eat dinner together, and then we always wind down together. That family time and resetting is really important. And then end of the day on a weekday, um, we are big on it's funny. We're so we're so type A and productive that we have realized the importance of at the end of the day after kiddo goes to bed, um, or actually, I should back up. We always read a book together. Um, we would do that anyway, but working for scholastic, you know, that the material is at least a little easier. Um, we read a book together as a family, all three of us. Little man goes down, and then my wife and I watch uh, you know, 45 minutes of something. And it's funny, we for a while there, we started cutting that out and we realized, you know, we talk about teams and stakeholders as project managers, that time is critically important to decompress, sitting next to each other, talk about our days, talk about what's coming up, um, talk about nothing, but just sit there next to each other. So we've actually gotten to where we protect that time um pretty, pretty, pretty dil diligently. Um, and that's kind of what Monday through Thursday looks like. It's that, you know, there are the very structured parts, there's the very chaotic parts at the end of the day with the family stuff. Um Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Um it really, you know, I do a lot of PMI chapter stuff. So that's when I'm often fitting that in. You know, those chaotic ends of days are when I generally will be speaking to PMI chapters. You know, I have a day job, so I have to be cognizant of not being impactful there. So I usually end up doing minimum a couple sessions a month. So those will sneak into those evenings, but I'll do the occasional Saturday morning sessions. Some chapters like to do those, especially for workshops. Um and then, you know, family life on the weekends, a lot of uh trips to water parks, a lot of, you know, making sure that we're getting the family time done there. Um, one of the keys with having all of this is it's funny. I've always been somebody that the circadian rhythm just naturally happens. I wish I could sleep in, I can't. So we were talking about the challenges of getting all the things in. I spend weekend mornings are like my, you know, draft a chapter of the book, finish some slides for the upcoming speaking gig. But I find, and again, this isn't like a drag yourself out of bed and be tired. It's just a if I'm already gonna wake up at this time and I can get some things done before the world starts, that's some of the most useful time there is.
Walt SparlingYeah, the circuit circadian rhythm. So I'm I'm a 90-minute guy, so I my sleep is based on that. If I get those 90-minute cycles, you know, it's gotta be for me, it's usually gonna be six minimum, seven and a half. After that, there's really no benefit. Less than that, um, it's a nightmare.
TYler NormanYeah.
Walt SparlingSo that's that's an interesting, and I it's true because your body adjusts, and what I hate is when your alarm goes off at 5:30 and you wake up at 5 15, and you know you have 15 more minutes you could have slept, and you're like, well, might as well get up.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of wasted time anyway. It's you're you're it's not gonna help you. Um, but yeah, I know that that was a little bit of a jumbled layout, but it's uh kind of the life of a uh of a project manager, and you get used to you get used to protecting the important blocks. You know, the the the day job has to be numero uno amongst all these, you know, short of family, obviously, but um, you know, the the day job, you have to protect those those work windows. And then it's you know, I mentioned you can't have it all all of the time. It depends on the season I'm in. Um, right now I'm in a lull where I don't have any triathlon or running events coming up. So the the speaking and the book writing is taking some priority. Um when we get to early October and I'm a few weeks out from the Detroit marathon, I will be letting some of the speaking and book writing stuff not be the priority for a little while. So it's kind of that that seasonal everything can't be the priority all of the time.
Walt SparlingMakes
Closing Thoughts And Where To Connect
Walt Sparlingsense. Well, this has been enlightening. It's been a great conversation. Uh I'm like I said earlier, I'm gonna share your website and your LinkedIn profile. And uh I assume once you get that book out.
TYler NormanYeah.
Walt SparlingBe looking forward to seeing that. I assume you'll publish that on probably your website and on LinkedIn.
TYler NormanYou know, I will, and and honestly, for for folks like you that have a little bit of a content base, what I'm planning to do is um just throwing people early copies of that and saying, uh, you know, you can take this part out. You if I I tell people, you know, if you if you love it and want to share something great, if you hate it and want to use it as uh extra paper in the restroom, that's fine too. But just you know, that that's kind of the name of the game with books is share it with lots of people and see what happens.
Walt SparlingYeah, because we actually I've done I think three book interviews where we've reviewed books, so that's another option as well.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, that would be great. Um, no, I I hope you got something out of that. I felt uh I know it's kind of the point with the interview, but I felt like I was just talking about me sometimes, but I was trying to tie it back to like value and what people would would get something out of.
Walt SparlingWell, it is about you and uh but about you sharing your story, yeah, yeah. Because other people can relate or maybe look to that and go, wow, I wish I could have that kind of life or that kind of structure, like the the family planning and the time blocking, which is you know, we all do to some extent, but to hear someone apply that successfully, and I time block, but uh I'm okay with it.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah.
Walt SparlingThe whole thing is sharing, and and other people can relate to and just say, Well, okay, so I'm not weird.
TYler NormanOther people pick out that one or two little things and go, okay, I'll try that.
Walt SparlingAnd they'll probably now recognize you when there's a PMI event coming up, and they go, Oh, I know that name.
TYler NormanYeah, yeah, absolutely. So all right.
Walt SparlingWell, uh, we're gonna wrap this up. I appreciate you coming on, and for everyone else, we'll see you in the next episode of PM Mastery.
TYler NormanThanks again, Walt.
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