PM-Mastery

Navigating the Project Management Landscape: Insights and Opportunities with Melissa (Chapman) Magee

• Walt Sparling • Season 1 • Episode 68

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Join us for an inspirational conversation with Melissa Chapman, a trailblazing project manager currently blazing new trails in the food and beverage industry. Melissa shares her incredible journey from being the first project manager at her previous company to her exciting new role at Chaucer Foods. She provides a compelling look into how she navigated this transition and her involvement with the innovative certification, Pure Project Manager, created by Joseph Phillips. Through Melissa’s experiences, listeners will gain valuable insights into effective communication strategies, stakeholder analysis, and the art of tailoring messages to diverse audiences.

Ever considered a career shift into project management? We explore a professional development pathway that could be your ticket into the field. Discover how coaching and certifications like PMP and the Project Manager can pave the way for aspiring project managers. From resume reviews to interview prep and bi-weekly coaching, we discuss the tools and support that Mellissa helps current and future PMs make their transition smoother. We encourage you to stay ahead in this ever-evolving discipline. Whether you're a seasoned veteran or just starting your journey, this episode promises to equip you with practical tips to enhance your project management prowess.

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Intro/Outro:

Welcome to the PM Mastery Podcast. This podcast is all about helping you master your project management skills by sharing tips, tricks, tools and training to get you to the next level, while sharing the stories of other project managers on their journey in project management. And now here's your host, walt Sparling.

Walt Sparling:

All right, welcome everybody to the current edition of PM Mastery. And today I have back once again Melissa Chapman. Welcome back, melissa.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Thanks, walt, it's great to be here.

Walt Sparling:

Good to always have conversations with you. So you were on back in December as part of the top five of episodes of all time, which was exciting, and the folks that were on there they're still in the top five, so it's continuing on. So we've kind of caught up with most of what's going on. But I know you made a kind of a teaser announcement today and on a new job you're going to be rolling into and since this won't post until after you actually start the job, we can't ask you how it's going, but we can ask you what it is and what you're excited about.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yeah, yeah. So today was my last day at my my current job, and it's been such a great place for me to pivot from teaching into project management. You know, as you know, I was the first project manager at the company for quite a while. They just started a PMO a few months ago, but up until then I was the only PM and so I was creating all kinds of processes and all those things, and so this new job is a brand new industry.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

I'm pivoting to a company called Chaucer Foods and they it's the food and beverage industry.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

I'll be a project and portfolio manager, so I'll I'll be managing a portfolio of projects and helping helping to determine the types of projects that we take on. I'll be specifically in the B2B part of the business and they do dry fruit and vegetable freeze, dried fruit and vegetables. So, for example, like the fruit that is in, like Kellogg cereal, the dried fruit. Or like the fruit in like a Starbucks drink right, that dried fruit. They produce that fruit and they're connected all over the world. They're in the UK and France and China and LA, so very excited about it. It's a hybrid role for me and I'll get to do some traveling and already in a couple of weeks we'll get to travel down to Southern California for like a big expo and very excited about the role in my getting to utilize all the skills that I have used in the past with all my other positions and get to like help create the processes again. It's a new role at the company so I get to kind of determine some of those things again, so very, very excited about it.

Walt Sparling:

You keep rolling into them first roles.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

I like those.

Walt Sparling:

Those two are very exciting. You're setting the precedence for everyone else that follows.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

I like it. Yep, I like it, yep, I like it. Set the bar high.

Walt Sparling:

Good deal. So on top of that, I know you've got a lot of other things going on. You do some training courses, you do some coaching and we're going to put links to all of that in our show notes. You and I were a part of a large group of 25 different instructors that did some courses for a new project management certification called the Pure Project Manager, and it's by Pure Management Alliance, and we all know the guy who started it all, joseph Phillips great guy, been around a long time, awesome instructor and, uh, it was released on Monday, the 27th. So, as a instructor in there, can you tell us a little bit about, maybe, either how you got into it or what your course is about and let's share it with everyone?

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yeah, it's funny. I got an email in July from Amanda Chambers, who is, you know, joe's assistant, and I thought it was spam email, because I get a lot of these emails that are like, hey, we want you to be an instructor, we want you to create this content, or I get those kind of quite often, but most of the time it's kind of spammy or something I'm not interested in. So I frankly thought it was one of those and I ignored it. And then she reached out to me on LinkedIn and said, hey, did you get my email? That wasn't spam, this is real. And so once I realized you know who she was and who she worked for, I was so shocked I said, wait, joe Phillips knows who I am. I had no idea she goes. Of course he does, he's been following you, he's excited to have you part of this project, and so you know it was an easy yes, absolutely yes. And so then, from there, you know, as you know, we got to kind of think about the topic that we wanted to teach on, and for me, communication within project management and just in life is such an important topic that that was a no-brainer.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

It's something that I talk about a lot and feel like is an important thing for everyone to hone their skills.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

So, yeah, so the title of my course is Knowing your Audience, tailoring your Message for Outcome-Based Communication, and the idea is that you know, we all talk all day and send messages all day, but how do you make sure that the person on the other end is receiving it in a way that makes sense to them and is what they really need to be able to either understand your message, interpret your message, do what you need them to do with your message, and so that's a lot of what I talk about is just how to understand who they are.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

So, you know, doing a stakeholder analysis and figuring out which stakeholders need which level of communication, what's the best mode of communication. Sometimes a text message is really great. Sometimes that's super not helpful and not a great way to communicate something right, and so all of those pieces of communication and how to take good meeting notes and what a good agenda looks like, and how to send a recap that includes, like, the owner and the task and who's you know who's responsible when, and all those things. So just a lot of things that I think are really important and are skills that can be learned and fine-tuned, and project leaders meeting leaders could all use some of those communication skills.

Walt Sparling:

So what I think is interesting is and you and I chatted about this in the early part of the program is I'm big on communication and I've actually written a chapter in John Connolly's book about it and I write about it in in blogs and stuff.

Walt Sparling:

My I wanted to do mine on communication and I saw your outline and we get to create our own course outline. We get to create the material. It's not till we're not told what we're doing. And so I looked at your summary and I was like, okay, there's some crosses here, but I had my heart set on this. I already spent all this time creating the summary. So I reached out to Amanda and I said is this going to be a problem? You know we're both writing about the same thing and she smart Amanda pulls up yours and mine, throws them into chat GPT and has it do an analysis on overlap uh, things that are covered one and not the other and she sent me a summary and she goes you're, you're fine, you've got a couple areas that are overlapping, but the other ones you're building on stuff.

Walt Sparling:

She's saying she's building on stuff. You're saying so it's going to be a good overall and I'm like okay, good I love that.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

That's funny because I also talk about emotional intelligence just a little bit, and I knew that Jeremiah has his. He talks quite a bit about emotional intelligence and so in my course I do a quick lesson on it and I mentioned you're going to hear about this in another course in more, more in depth, but I got to talk about it a little bit because it does apply to communication. So there's overlap, which is good.

Walt Sparling:

I think it's interesting because there's 25 instructors and I know probably a little over half. In fact, I just did a post it's scheduled to go out on my newsletter, scheduled to go out Saturday, okay and I did a little coverage on the peer program. In of the 25 instructors, I think I've interviewed 16 of them.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

That's awesome.

Walt Sparling:

I've met them. But the thing communication, emotional intelligence, soft skills, which I talk about in my course, good PMs are good at all those things.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

You have to have them.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

You have to have them and so many times I have. You know I work with people. I would get an email that's just like this long paragraph full of just so much and somewhere in there they have two or three things that they need in response. But it's such a convoluted mess that it gets lost and I've seen that happen and I've seen the people that are responding not respond and not give them the information and I'm like because it's a mess and so like it's. It's a skill to take a bunch of words and information, synthesize it into bullet points and clear asks, even like the presentation in the email, like making it very clear this is what I need by when, right and so. So that's just a super important skill, whether you're a project manager or sending an email to you know.

Walt Sparling:

Oh yeah, general communication.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Who knows, and that's what I love about communication is. It's not. Yes, it's very important for project managers, but the course is really just for anyone who works and has to communicate with other humans, because so many of the pieces are just good practice.

Walt Sparling:

So I think the benefit of this program is there's going to be a lot of courses that do have some overlap, but to me it's going to be basically reinforcement. So if one instructor says it and then you know they take three classes later another one is talking about a similar topic and they're covering the same thing, it's like wow, this is important. I mean, all these people that have been doing this stuff and do this stuff every day are stating how important it is. So that's reinforcement for, like the newer PMs.

Walt Sparling:

For sure you know the existing PMs are going to go. Yeah, I know that, I know that and I know how important it is, but they're going to pick up some tidbits from other PMs that have been doing this a while.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yeah.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

I think it's pretty good, yeah, and and, like you said, we're going to both you and I are different people. We're going to approach the same topic in different ways too and like there's things that probably you talk about that I don't, and vice versa. Another thing I talked about that I talk about weirdly a lot but is not normally connected to project management, which is the bystander effect. I maybe have mentioned it here before, but for me it's a huge part of this idea that, like you know, you send an email and there's 27 people copied on it and it's either to hate everyone or it's not addressed to anyone specific, or there's so many people on copy that most people just ignore those emails. Right, and it's the bystander effect that comes from, like a car crash, when everyone assumes everyone else is going to call 911.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

So no one does it and everyone assumes, well, no one's 911. So no one does it and everyone assumes, well, no one's responding. So why should I right? It's the same idea. And so, like making sure even in your emails that you're really clear again about who are you addressing. Like, even if you're copying 20 people for visibility, make sure in the email it's like who are you talking to, what are you asking for? You know, are you looking for a response? And so I love using that and applying it to communication and I don't. I don't know that I had seen that a lot, but in my mind it came up one time early on in my, in my math emails. I'm like this is just like the bystander effect no one's responding.

Walt Sparling:

Well then you'll like my course Cause I actually addressed that in an email etiquette section about how you address who it's to what the expected responses are if you're a two or a CC, using the exclamation point very sparingly, fyi a lot of FYI isn't helpful because people ignore it.

Walt Sparling:

then yeah, and something I've gotten better at is when someone says something, if it's not a critical thing, when I reply thank you, cause I like to be cordial and nice, I reply thank you to the person that sent it. You know, back in the day it was reply all yeah, and now it's like no, I just send like I did. I did I think I said like four thank yous today, one of them. I copied all because there was a miscommunication about something and this email was supposed to summarize this is the final. So when I did a reply, all I said thank you. This resolves the issue Case closed.

Walt Sparling:

Everybody knew what was going on.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yes, totally Love it.

Walt Sparling:

Now, pure is obviously big and we're going to put a link in there for the Pure program. For you, and I know you've been posting on LinkedIn, but it's not the only thing you're involved in. What other kind of stuff are you doing?

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yeah. So I guess I started a year, year and a half ago coaching. So that's really the first thing I really started doing when I was on LinkedIn is I created a TopMate account and started really offering one-on-one sessions for people that needed like resume reviews. Or, honestly, a lot of people reach out to me like either transitioning teachers are like hey, I just want to pivot into project management, what do I need to think about? Do I qualify for the PMP? Do I need the PMP? So I offer a lot of those conversations and help with the interview prep too. In fact, just this week I did a an interview prep with someone who found me through a YouTube channel and like wasn't even connected with me on LinkedIn and so, you know, I just kind of offered that and that sort of fell in my lap just because of LinkedIn and I kept getting requests. So I thought I would try it and, as you know, I wrote the PMP ebook that was like the application process and so that kind of triggered that. So I have my PMP ebook that helps people apply and I often meet with people to review the application before they submit it and they use a template that I created. I've got my top mate coaching, and then a year and a half ago I partnered with bettercareerorg to create an entire program that really is helping people pivot into project management, and so it's called the Project Manager Accelerator, and so I'm the only instructor. I co-created this five-module program. It has like 23 videos and it walks through everything from like what is project management to the methodologies, to really practical ways to update your resume and it. It offers job search strategies and all of those things as well. But also what is unique about this versus some of the other programs where you can just go get your 35 education hours, which you can get with the PMA is I offer bi-weekly coaching sessions. So every other week I have a live session with anyone in the program that wants to show up and ask questions, and we have different topics we talk about. And then they also get a session with me, one-on-one to talk about resumes or whatever, and so they get that live interaction as well, not just like take a course and never talk to that person again and that's through the life of them, like as long as they need it, as long as they, until they get a job or whatever. So so that part's really really exciting. And a year ago it came out and it was, you know, a bit more expensive as we were trying to figure out what worked. And so just about two weeks ago we revamped that while we've been working on it for months, but we just revamped the whole thing and I'm taking a bit more ownership in the whole program and just kind of relaunched it at a much, much, much lower price. And what I love about that and this peer credential is how well they could go together. In fact, this week I just wrote a post.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

If I were to start over today and be like I want to leave the classroom and pivot into project management, what would I do? I would start with the project manager accelerator because it's like, what is project management? It's like those basic things about the methodologies and what are the five phases of a project, right, pretty basic level. But also that job seeker support and like how do I update my language on my resume to speak kind of like project management, all those things, right, the coaching. And then I would go do my PMP, because I would use my experience to get my PMP. Then from there I would do the peer credential, because now I have my PMP and I can get the 60 credit hours right to use the peer to get the 60 PDUs. Thank you, the 60 PDUs. So that's kind of the course that I would go in today, and they all feed into each other really nicely, not only that.

Walt Sparling:

I think the way you described it was great, as you have the starting out, you have the project management kind of theory from the PMI frame and then you have real project managers that are doing it. So now you can apply from the PMP knowledge. You know I talk about risks and they talk about schedules and budgets. Well, now you talk, you know, you take the courses on the cure side and they're like they actually get into that stuff. This is how I do it on a daily basis.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Exactly and that's why they feed in to each other. And, honestly, if it, if there was someone who, you know, took the PMA program and kind of got the basics and understood what project management is and ready to find a PM job book, but either didn't have the experience for the PMP or didn't quite feel like they were ready for that, they really could go straight to the peer right and the peer credential. And I actually had someone reach out to me recently, this week with the launch of peer, and ask is this only for PMPs? And then I'm like no, no, no, no, no, you do not have to already have your PMP, there's no prerequisite. It doesn't even have to be someone who has the official project manager title. Anyone even have to be someone who has the official you know project manager title.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Anyone who's looking for you know a way to hone in on their skills and you can lead projects without being a quote PM right, like leaders all all over the board can can take this course and can find a lot of value in a lot of the different things. Like you know, we're just talking about how to like write good emails.

Walt Sparling:

And I think to your point there if someone starts out, they don't have the experience to go for the PMP. I mean right now PMP, everybody wants their PMP. Right now I want my peer PM. But the thing is, one of the qualifications is not only the time and service but the classroom hours, education. So if you take 60 hours of classroom education for through the pure program there's your 35 hours and it doesn't matter I remember, joe and I've talked about this in the past it doesn't matter how long ago you took it. If it's project management education, then you can use it and you can use the rest of your PDUs for starting out with your first go around on renewal.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yeah, that's great, yeah. And the other thing about the my, the other program, the project manager accelerator is you can, anyone who takes that course gets the 35 hours for the PMP also, it's, it's 35 hours, so it's pretty great for that. Again, for the basic level or people who are looking for that extra support, it's a great way. But to your point, if not, that's what's so great about Pure is, you know, anyone can just decide to go take it. And there's a lot of people that I'm like yeah, go take this, it's not, you don't have to be a PM to do it and they're such great.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

The courses are amazing. Like reading through the titles, so diverse it's, it's exciting, it's. I, yeah, I've, I've already started taking a few of the courses. I'm just like it's, I'm blown away by the caliber of the courses and the content and, of course, the people. Um, I've actually had someone reach out to me this week asking, um, hey, how did you become an instructor and can I get on that list? They're like there's so many quality people I know that are instructors and I want to be part of that group. I'm like, actually there is a process In fact, people that are interested can there's an email that you can email the Peer Alliance team and apply. There's an application process now going forward, so, which I found out.

Walt Sparling:

So yeah, Lots of stuff going on. New job about to start here soon. Once this episode posts, you will have started.

Intro/Outro:

So yes, yes, yes I'm sure we'll catch up with you in the future.

Walt Sparling:

Follow your posts and see how that is going.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Sounds good.

Walt Sparling:

All right, and I'll have links in the show notes, in fact, if you don't mind. I mean, I can get it from Joe, but if you can send me that email for applying, I'll throw that in the show notes as well. Yeah, I got that?

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Yeah, no, I got that because I had a couple of people ask me and so I asked Amanda she gave it to me, said tell people to send an email to this address and you can get information on how to apply to be an instructor. So great.

Walt Sparling:

Yeah, because I'm pretty sure they have at least potentially an agile one coming up.

Melissa (Chapman) Magee:

Well, and that's what I told this person who asked us I know there's stuff in the future happening, so they are always looking for more instructors, it sounds like. So yeah, I'll send you that email as well.

Walt Sparling:

Awesome, all right, well, I appreciate you coming on once again and for everyone else, we'll see you in the next episode of PM Mastery.

Intro/Outro:

Thanks for listening to the PM Mastery podcast at wwwpm-masterycom. Be sure to subscribe in your podcast player. Until next time, keep working on your craft.